Nile is far from your average run of the mill death metal act. Since their humble beginnings in 1993, Nile has forged a unique sound that executed old school death metal with a particular brutal technical efficiency, while incorporating middle-eastern (In particular Egyptian) lyrical themes and musical influences throughout proceedings, giving Nile a sound that separated them from their contemporaries. While gaining a small amount of success with the release of their debut E.P. Festivals Of Atonement (Released in 1995 through Anubis Records) and their follow up E.P. Ramses Bringer Of War (Released in 1997 through Visceral Records), it was the trio’s (Guitarist/vocalist Karl Sanders, bassist/vocalist Chief Spires and drummer Pete Hammoura) debut full-length release for Relapse Records, 1998’s Amongst the Catacombs Of Nephren-Ka, that really thrust the band into onto the greater death metal scene in a major way. The success of the album (Not to mention the band’s gruelling tours with Incantation and Floridian legends Morbid Angel) not only saw Relapse Records re-release their two E.P.’s (Under the banner of In The Beginning in 2000), but also made way for an expansion of their line-up, with guitarist/vocalist Dallas Toler-Wade and guest drummer Derek Roddy (Who is one of death metal’s premier drummers, and now in Hate Eternal) helping finalise their highly regarded, but difficult sophomore effort Black Seeds Of Vengeance (Released in 2000).The album was considered a huge leap forward in every aspect of Nile’s abilities (From a song writing sense, to the extremity of the band’s approach to death metal through to a greater presence of middle-eastern themes), but it also came at a cost.

By 2002, Nile once again changed their line-up (Bassist/vocalist Jon Vesano replacing Spires, and Tony Laureano replacing Hammoura), but it didn’t hinder the band’s move forward with In Their Darkened Shrines, and the unanimous high praise it garnished for taking their unique sound to heights never before thought possible within extreme music.

In their longest gap to date between releases, Nile have survived gruelling tours and further line-up shuffles (Ex-Nightfall drummer George Kollias replaced Laureano, and Vesano’s recent resignation in March) to finally complete their fourth full length release (And perhaps their most stunning achievement to date) in Annihilation Of The Wicked.

Taking a short break between bouts of touring, Justin Donnelly caught up with guitarist/vocalist Dallas Toler-Wade at home in Greenville (South Carolina) to delve deep into the creative process behind their fourth album Annihilation Of The Wicked, working with producer Neil Kernon, the band’s relationship with Relapse Records and the band’s strongest line-up to date.

“We busted our asses making Annihilation Of The Wicked, and it was definitely our intention to make this album even stronger than our previous releases, rather than simply make another Nile album. Even though we had problems with members coming and going in the last three years, I would say this was about the most stress free album we’ve ever made. Sanders, Kollias and I worked up the songs in about a two and a half/three month period, and then we went into the studio and recorded for a total of about six weeks, which also included mix-down too. So the whole process was reasonably quick. Plus we also got to work with Neil Kernon this time, so we actually had a real producer! So working with Kernon, and all those other things combined, it really helped making Annihilation Of The Wicked reasonably trouble free.”

One of the more notable aspects about Annihilation Of The Wicked is the toning down of Egyptian/world music influences that usually stands out amongst Nile’s work, and therefore allows a greater dominance of the traditional black metal influences overall.

“I can tell you now that it wasn’t planned that way. We only actually came to the realisation of that fact while we were listening to the final mix of the album before sending off for mastering. Both Sanders and I were looking at each other thinking, ‘Wow! There’s really not a whole lot of different instrumentation going on here!’ So it was totally an instinctual thing. That was pretty much how it was in the past too. It’s always been instinctual. We would use stuff like that when we saw fit, or when Sanders would bring this strange sounding instrument in to play with. It was only ever included on the albums if we all though it sounded cool. That was usually the way it would go. This time around however, it didn’t quite happen that way. Annihilation Of The Wicked is certainly a more guitar and drum heavy album than we’ve done in the past, but that’s cool. It’s a different sounding album in a lot of ways. Well the production is a lot better for starters! You can actually hear what we’re doing, even in the more intense situations with the guitar playing and the blasting drums, and stuff like that. It’s not the easiest stuff to mix! (Laughs)”

When I suggested that perhaps part of the reason for the lack of Egyptian/world music influences within Annihilation Of The Wicked was due to Sanders getting a lot of those ideas out of his system with the release of his 2004 solo album Saurian Meditation (On which Toler-Wade guested on), it was a possible explanation that Toler-Wade himself hadn’t even considered.

“I hadn’t even thought about that! (Laughs) You know what, that just might be a major factor as well. Plus there’s also the fact that during the In Their Darkened Shrines tour, we talked to various guitar makers, which means that we’re now endorsed with Dean Guitars. Sanders also has a deal with Jackson Guitars, not to mention a deal with this other guy from San Diego who has a small custom shop called KXK Guitars, who also built him a guitar. So Sanders now has all these nice new guitars. All he used to own was this one Fender Guitar with the one pick up on it. So maybe all he wanted was to play some new guitars! (Laughs)”

Naturally, you can’t talk about the Nile album without mentioning the incredible sound that producer Neil Kernon has manage to extract from the band (Which is without any doubt their best sounding effort to date). Nile’s Annihilation Of The Wicked is, as you would expect, another brutal slab of death metal, but it’s Kernon’s production values that allow every instrument to stand out (Particularly in Kollias’ drum sounds), without losing an ounce of heaviness.

“Yeah, Kernon did an amazing job. And working with him was amazing too. Not only is he a genius, but he’s also a really, really cool person. We’re used to saving up our own money and trying scape enough together for a weekend in a studio! (Laughs) We pretty much fended for ourselves. This time around we had a better budget, so that definitely affected the sound of the recordings as well. In Their Darkened Shrines sold really well, so we were able to invest a little more of our money into the new album. Well all agreed that we really had to kick ass this time! (Laughs) We were tossing around potential names to produce the album, and his name came up. We looked at his accomplishments and what he had done in the past, and we soon found out that he’d done a lot of albums, and had gained a lot of experience. He’s done everything from Hall & Oates, through to Cannibal Corpse, Nevermore, and Queensrÿche to Dokken. Not to mention Macabre. He’s produced the last couple of efforts from them. I absolutely fucking love Murder Metal (2003)! That’s just awesome. He’s also done some more obscure jazz stuff in the past. The kind of stuff that’s really focused on some technically difficult and tense situations, and he was able to get those to come out really clear sounding (Such as McGill/Manring/Steven’s 2001 album Addition By Subtraction and 2002’s Controlled By Radar). Regardless of what your tastes are, in the back of my mind, all I was thinking was, ‘All those albums sound really good!’ So after we looked at all that, Sanders then talked to him a couple of times, and Sanders got a really positive vibe about him. He told us he was a cool dude, and we decided to just go with it. It was important that his attitude blended well with the band, because it was pretty much new territory for us too. He was definitely the guy for the job, and I would go as far as to say that I could work the rest of my professional musical career with him. So really, it was a no-brainer. He’s just amazing.”

Apart from his impeccable skills behind the desk, Kernon also brought to the recording sessions something that was missing from all of Nile’s previous ventures in the studio, and that was discipline.

“He definitely brought his own vibe. If there was something concerning the vocal phrasings, the tightness of the guitar sounds or the overall vibe and energy, he was really able to capture us at our best. He would also push us to get that better performance. I’d be sitting there doing my guitar, and if I were there just by myself, I would think it would sound fine. But with Kernon, it was like, ‘Ah, not quite. Do it again… And again… Great!’ (Laughs) So it was nice to have somebody in there that would push us. He knew that we had better takes in us, and better performances, and he stood there and made sure that he got the best performances out of all of us. Man, I would have to say that’s priceless.”

Apart from the notable sound differences, the other distinct change within Nile is the line-up change, with Annihilation Of The Wicked marking the final recording from Vesano (Citing personal and business reasons), and the debut of drummer Kollias, which inevitably begs the question as to why Nile have such are a hard time holding down permanent members?

“Sanders and I are assholes! (Laughs) I think we’ve just had bad luck. I think a lot of bands and band members, particularly in this scene, have this problem because it doesn’t generate a whole lot of income. In the case of Vesano, he was making a far more considerable amount of money in his day job, and there’s a level of security there. So it really boils down to just how dedicated and willing you are to be in Nile? All we really ask is for people to play their parts correct, show up to practice, be on time at the shows and if you’ve got some cool ideas, we’d like to see that too. It sounds pretty simple, and for a person who has their head in the right place, and find this is really what they want, it would be the ideal position. But people sometimes don’t know what’s right for them until they try these things. So even though it’s at other people’s expense sometimes, it just a natural evolution. As a result, yes we have had some line up changes. But we’ve been lucky in recent times, and the band is actually better now than it’s ever been in both the musical aspect, and everybody just generally getting along. Kollias is an amazing guy, and he’s a drumming fanatic. It’s all he ever talks about. It’s really inspiring to be around him.”

Filling in on bass in recent times is nineteen year old Joe Payne, but even though he’s been a saviour in Nile’s time of need, he far from a permanent member at this time.

“Well he’s a session bass player. While we’re still trying out other bass players, he’s definitely eligible for the position. He’s done two tours with us, and he’s done a really good job. He’s really talented too. He learned the whole set in about forty-eight hours. He actually plays bass in a band that I play drums in. They’re called Lecherous Nocturne. But even though we both play in another band, the bands don’t conflict with each other. I wouldn’t have that! (Laughs) We’ll be cutting a demo in the coming months, and playing some shows in Nile’s downtime. But Nile has been, and will always be main focus. So you know, there’s definitely potential for him, but because of our previous line up changes, we definitely want to see what our options are, and make sure that the next time we make the decision to make somebody permanent, we know that they’re going to be permanent.”

Prior to Payne filling in the bass position, Nile turned to ex-Morbid Angel bassist/vocalist Steve Tucker to help out.

“We never really got to the try out stage. We knew just from past experiences that he would be a guy that would get us out of a situation in a hurry, and do it fast and in a professional manner. But we were able to find someone on our home turf at the last minute.”

Changing the focus toward the album Annihilation Of The Wicked, I asked Toler-Wade as to whether the album contained a general theme associated with the title of the album?

“The songs stand as individuals themselves, but if you listen to the album from one end to the other with the lyrics in hand, there’s definitely an overall apocalyptic vibe and feeling that the lyrics and the music are portraying. Even though it’s not really conceptual album, it can be seen that way as a whole. We chose the title because the track itself because it’s actually about a two headed flying snake that’s tail sole existence is to annihilate and terminate the wicked, which in itself could be seen as humankind.”

And then there’s the ridiculously lengthy titled Chapter Of Obeisance Before Giving Breath To The Inert One In The Presence Of The Crescent Shaped Horns, which in itself begs comment from Toler-Wade as to how such a title was thought up with in the first place?

“(Laughs) Part of that I guess comes down to Sanders’ only way to describe what the song was talking about. Plus it’s also a nice pastime to irritate the record company every now and then. I’m sure it’s irritated quite a few people so far, and I think that’s O.K., because people need to be irritated sometimes. We actually joked around about that being the title track, and thus the title of the album! (Laughs) That was shot down real quick.”

Prior to the release of Annihilation Of The Wicked, Relapse Records put up an advance downloadable version of Lashed To The Slave Stick for fans, which was soon greeted with a somewhat divided opinion from those who anticipated an all out assault from the band, but instead were treated to a groove orientated track that was simplistic to say the least.

“Relapse Records actually decided on that track, mostly because it was kind of a hooky and catchy kind of song. It’s not quite as avant-garde as some of the other songs on the album, such as the ridiculously titled Chapter of Obeisance Before Giving Breath To The Inert One In The Presence Of The Crescent Shaped Horns! (Laughs) Sanders wrote that song, and I wrote Burning Pits Of The Duat, and they’re more like the avant-garde and extreme songs. We wanted to have more variety on the album, so we had songs like the title track (Annihilation Of The Wicked) and Lashed To The Slave Stick. They’re more mid tempo songs, and that was simply because we wanted the variety they offer. As each record that’s released, we’ll have more and more of that variety as well. In the past, Nile albums were either really fast, or really slow. We wanted to mix that up this time around. Lashed To The Slave Stick for me personally was more an experiment with creating a rhythmic vortex so to speak, and it actually ended up being a very memorable and catchy song. I think that was the reason that Relapse Records chose that one. I would say that by itself, it’s not what Annihilation Of The Wicked is about at all. As soon as you put on the album, Cast Down The Heretic (After the opening instrumental Dusk Falls Upon The Temple Of The Serpent On The Mount Of Sunrise) starts, and that’s pretty much a bludgeoning and a half. Lashed To The Slave Stick wouldn’t have been my personal choice, even though I wrote the music for the song. I would have rather they used Burning Pits Of The Duat or one of the heavier songs. But at the same time, I can kind of understand why they did choose that song. It’s one of those gateway songs. Let me put it this way. Marijuana is a gateway drug! (Laughs) It’s heavy enough to be what it is, but at the same time it’s not so absolutely bludgeoning that somebody who’s never heard Nile before, or heard that kind of music before, to be inclined to pick it up. It’s a little more accessible to the listener, even if that wasn’t my intention. I was just kind of playing around with some rhythmic vibes or whatever. That’s just how it kind of ended up.”

While many would be unaware of the fact, Annihilation Of The Wicked is actually the final album under the current contract between both Nile and Relapse Records. But as Toler-wade says, the future direction of the band label wise is not in question at this point in time.

“I don’t know what the future has in store in that situation yet. I couldn’t go into too much detail with you if I had any ideas at the moment either. I will say this though, Relapse Records do an amazing job with their bands, and they have done an amazing job with Nile. Put it this way, they basically do their fucking job! They are honestly a great bunch of guys, and they’re a bunch of music fans as well. They’re the opposite of the suit and tie sorts that know shit about music. These guys are into the music, supportive of music and I’m sure that a couple of the guys that work there have been in bands in the past. So they’re a great label, and a great bunch of guys. I’ll just leave it at that! So far the feedback for Annihilation Of The Wicked has been really good. And that says something about what we have achieved, and what Relapse Records have been able to do as well. I would even say the reaction has been surprising! We never know what to expect. Hell, we never even expected to get out of the garage really! We didn’t even really care, but having this opportunity has been amazing of course. I definitely didn’t see it coming. But yeah, it’s been surprisingly positive responses. Of course, there’s going to be someone on a message board that thinks whatever. But those people don’t have a life anyway! (Laughs)”

Along with the standard version of Annihilation Of The Wicked, Relapse Records have also offered up to the die hard fans a strictly limited collectors edition of the album, which includes exclusive Nile artefacts such as a custom Serpent-Ankh necklace, full-colour album poster, vinyl sticker and embroidered patch in association with the album and it’s associated usual packaging.

“Relapse Records do things like that from time to time. They basically came to us with the complete idea, and said that they really wanted to do this. We thought that it sounded really cool, but only as long as we get one! (Laughs) They’ve been really good about presenting ideas, rather than simply doing things! (Laughs) They’ve always pressed vinyl as far back as I can remember. I’m actually looking at three records of ours at the moment hanging up there on my wall. I don’t actually have Annihilation Of The Wicked at the moment, so they’d better send me one soon! But they wanted to put out something that was for the collectors. It was aimed at the people who collect the limited edition stuff, the sort of what I used to collect, but don’t anymore because I don’t have the time! (Laughs) I collect some of the Nile stuff though. I have the In Their Darkened Shrines vinyl. That album was just about an hour long, so that came out on a double album. It’s just so cool to have a double album. I never would have thought that I would ever have a double album! (Laughs) I also have a few other things. I have a couple of Japanese C.D.’s here. Some of the fans that come to the shows give us stuff they’ve made from time to time. Sometimes they’ll bring little pharaoh statues, Ramses statues or even a Nile paperweight. People just make this stuff and bring it to the shows. So that’s pretty cool. So of course, this limited edition version has the album and the booklet in it, but it also has like a really cool sticker, a patch and also a necklace. It’s pretty cool. Relapse Records had better send me one of those too, or I’m going to come up with an even longer song title if they don’t! (Laughs)”

As the conversation draws to a close, we inevitably turn towards touring, in particular the U.S. tour with King Diamond, The Black Dahlia Murder and Behemoth.

“It went really well. I didn’t know what to expect with King Diamond. I knew he had a strong following in the past, but we didn’t know about now. His following here in the U.S. was very strong. We had a pretty intense package with King Diamond, us, The Black Dahlia Murder and Behemoth. I think the thing that made the package do well was the fact that there were different bands sounding on there. So it really brought out a diverse crowd. Of course, there was a good majority of people there to see all the bands, but there were some there just to see one band as well, and we were able to expose them to our music. It was really cool with all the diverse crowds, and the tour went really well.”

Next up is the upcoming Harvest Festival 2005 European Tour with Unleashed, Hate Eternal, Behemoth, Incantation and Blood Red Throne, who will all cover Europe from early September through to mid October.

“That’s going to be a brutal tour for the hardcore fans for sure. It will appeal to people that are just into the extreme side of metal. So I’m pretty sure that tour is going to have a nice dark edgy vibe to it. I’m looking forward to it.”

Of course, I couldn’t leave without asking about the prospect of an Australian tour, and surprisingly enough, Toler-Wade ensured me that a tour was imminent, with only the dates yet to be confirmed.

“Oh man, were going down there as soon as we can. I don’t know any exact dates, but I know that our manager is working on getting us there. We’re definitely going to tour Australia on this album, even if I have to sell my van and finance it myself! (Laughs) There’s quite a few places that we’ve yet to tour, and we’re seriously bitching to the right people to make them happen with this tour. I usually don’t like to speculate what the future may bring, but I have a feeling that this album will serious open some doors for us, and especially when it comes to touring some places that we’ve never been able to play before. I want to go to some new places, and play my guitar. At the end of the day, all I really want to do is play my guitar.”

Nile's latest album Annihilation Of The Wicked is out now on Relapse Records through Riot! Distribution. For more information on Nile, check out www.nile-catacombs.net.